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	<title>Comments on: Fourways residents vow to pursue iBurst matter</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.techcentral.co.za/fourways-residents-vow-to-pursue-iburst-matter/12210/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.techcentral.co.za/fourways-residents-vow-to-pursue-iburst-matter/12210/</link>
	<description>South Africa&#039;s quality technology news source</description>
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		<title>By: Robert MacLean</title>
		<link>http://www.techcentral.co.za/fourways-residents-vow-to-pursue-iburst-matter/12210/comment-page-1/#comment-3261</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert MacLean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:17:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcentral.co.za/?p=12210#comment-3261</guid>
		<description>See this has made the international websites now: http://www.boingboing.net/2010/01/15/electrosensitives-to.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See this has made the international websites now: <a href="http://www.boingboing.net/2010/01/15/electrosensitives-to.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.boingboing.net/2010/01/15/electrosensitives-to.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Robert MacLean</title>
		<link>http://www.techcentral.co.za/fourways-residents-vow-to-pursue-iburst-matter/12210/comment-page-1/#comment-2662</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert MacLean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2010 22:44:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcentral.co.za/?p=12210#comment-2662</guid>
		<description>@Debbie - 
 1) I saw the pictures and notes that they were shown, however I am looking for a medical doctors investigation. A independant 3rd party is important to prove anything.
 2) I disagree that the public forum of MyBroadband is an ally, since it&#039;s members are made of many people some of which are iBurst competitors and this would help them.
 3) Why are you under threat of legal action? Do you work for iBurst?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Debbie &#8211;<br />
 1) I saw the pictures and notes that they were shown, however I am looking for a medical doctors investigation. A independant 3rd party is important to prove anything.<br />
 2) I disagree that the public forum of MyBroadband is an ally, since it&#8217;s members are made of many people some of which are iBurst competitors and this would help them.<br />
 3) Why are you under threat of legal action? Do you work for iBurst?</p>
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		<title>By: Jeeva</title>
		<link>http://www.techcentral.co.za/fourways-residents-vow-to-pursue-iburst-matter/12210/comment-page-1/#comment-2642</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeeva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 21:30:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcentral.co.za/?p=12210#comment-2642</guid>
		<description>oh lulz, now my comments get deleted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh lulz, now my comments get deleted.</p>
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		<title>By: Louis</title>
		<link>http://www.techcentral.co.za/fourways-residents-vow-to-pursue-iburst-matter/12210/comment-page-1/#comment-2624</link>
		<dc:creator>Louis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 17:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcentral.co.za/?p=12210#comment-2624</guid>
		<description>You can never quote Wikipedia in a debate, for the same reason you may not use it as a reference for academic papers - its too easy to be edited by someone who doesn&#039;t really know what (s)he is talking about.

That aside, I was always told by my lecturers (to put it simply)  that the waves are literally too thick to actually affect you</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can never quote Wikipedia in a debate, for the same reason you may not use it as a reference for academic papers &#8211; its too easy to be edited by someone who doesn&#8217;t really know what (s)he is talking about.</p>
<p>That aside, I was always told by my lecturers (to put it simply)  that the waves are literally too thick to actually affect you</p>
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		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://www.techcentral.co.za/fourways-residents-vow-to-pursue-iburst-matter/12210/comment-page-1/#comment-2613</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 06:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcentral.co.za/?p=12210#comment-2613</guid>
		<description>Debbie,

You are confused, NOT having the tower operating cannot be construed as &quot;experimenting&quot; on you in any possible way. 
The fact that you continued to manifest symptoms regardless of the fact that the tower was OFF pretty much proves that whatever you are suffering was not caused by the tower.

The fact they they turned it off at the first complaints shows them to have attempted to alleviate your problems. 
The fact that they did not tell you it was off and allowed you continue your hysteria shows them to be genius.

&quot;electrosenesitivity&quot; is purest bull****, you have been proven to be either a hysteric or a liar, take your choice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Debbie,</p>
<p>You are confused, NOT having the tower operating cannot be construed as &#8220;experimenting&#8221; on you in any possible way.<br />
The fact that you continued to manifest symptoms regardless of the fact that the tower was OFF pretty much proves that whatever you are suffering was not caused by the tower.</p>
<p>The fact they they turned it off at the first complaints shows them to have attempted to alleviate your problems.<br />
The fact that they did not tell you it was off and allowed you continue your hysteria shows them to be genius.</p>
<p>&#8220;electrosenesitivity&#8221; is purest bull****, you have been proven to be either a hysteric or a liar, take your choice.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.techcentral.co.za/fourways-residents-vow-to-pursue-iburst-matter/12210/comment-page-1/#comment-2611</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 17:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcentral.co.za/?p=12210#comment-2611</guid>
		<description>&quot;To my mind, I think that they do not like the tower as it is an eyesore and lowers their property values.&quot;

I think you&#039;ve hit the nail on the head there, Gary.

A classic case of NIMBY.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimby</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;To my mind, I think that they do not like the tower as it is an eyesore and lowers their property values.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;ve hit the nail on the head there, Gary.</p>
<p>A classic case of NIMBY.<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimby" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimby</a></p>
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		<title>By: Gary Waterworth</title>
		<link>http://www.techcentral.co.za/fourways-residents-vow-to-pursue-iburst-matter/12210/comment-page-1/#comment-2607</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Waterworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 10:14:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcentral.co.za/?p=12210#comment-2607</guid>
		<description>Agreed there is a lot known about it , but there is also a lot that is unknown about long term affects.

For every report that even cellphone levels hare harmful there is a report that it is not. 
I even remember seeing that it could be beneficial for certain types of conditions :) 

Basically I think that community has been their own worst enemy. Going overboard with health conditions , where at that level of exposure they would have only seen effects in years if not decades in the future. 
To my mind, I think that they do not like the tower as it is an eyesore and lowers their property values. 
Sure maybe Iburst and the relevant contractors didnt follow the procedures, but I have yet to see any direct evidence ( and the hypothetical arguments on various forums are not evidence ). I actually agree with Iburst&#039;s stance. In some ways they have been a lot more accommodating than I would have been. Only when it comes to a court battle and they are faced with court orders do they have to supply all the documentation. Until then they just have to bide their time.

So where is the court battle they have been threatening ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed there is a lot known about it , but there is also a lot that is unknown about long term affects.</p>
<p>For every report that even cellphone levels hare harmful there is a report that it is not.<br />
I even remember seeing that it could be beneficial for certain types of conditions <img src='http://www.techcentral.co.za/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>Basically I think that community has been their own worst enemy. Going overboard with health conditions , where at that level of exposure they would have only seen effects in years if not decades in the future.<br />
To my mind, I think that they do not like the tower as it is an eyesore and lowers their property values.<br />
Sure maybe Iburst and the relevant contractors didnt follow the procedures, but I have yet to see any direct evidence ( and the hypothetical arguments on various forums are not evidence ). I actually agree with Iburst&#8217;s stance. In some ways they have been a lot more accommodating than I would have been. Only when it comes to a court battle and they are faced with court orders do they have to supply all the documentation. Until then they just have to bide their time.</p>
<p>So where is the court battle they have been threatening ?</p>
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		<title>By: SD</title>
		<link>http://www.techcentral.co.za/fourways-residents-vow-to-pursue-iburst-matter/12210/comment-page-1/#comment-2605</link>
		<dc:creator>SD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 07:14:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcentral.co.za/?p=12210#comment-2605</guid>
		<description>Andrew is dead-on. The radiation emitted from towers like iBurst&#039;s are non-ionising and harmless to people living nearby. 

People need to stop pretending that we don&#039;t know what the effects of this kind of technology are - we know a hell of a lot about it. The residents of Craigavon are making the mistake of confusing correlation with causation. They obviously haven&#039;t done much research either.

Having a rash proves nothing. It could be caused by a new plant in the garden, something she ate - or even her toothpaste. It is ridiculous to pin symptoms on any possible factor until there is empirical evidence that proves causation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew is dead-on. The radiation emitted from towers like iBurst&#8217;s are non-ionising and harmless to people living nearby. </p>
<p>People need to stop pretending that we don&#8217;t know what the effects of this kind of technology are &#8211; we know a hell of a lot about it. The residents of Craigavon are making the mistake of confusing correlation with causation. They obviously haven&#8217;t done much research either.</p>
<p>Having a rash proves nothing. It could be caused by a new plant in the garden, something she ate &#8211; or even her toothpaste. It is ridiculous to pin symptoms on any possible factor until there is empirical evidence that proves causation.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.techcentral.co.za/fourways-residents-vow-to-pursue-iburst-matter/12210/comment-page-1/#comment-2599</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 14:39:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcentral.co.za/?p=12210#comment-2599</guid>
		<description>@gary

i think you&#039;re confusing &quot;ionising&quot; and &quot;non-ionising&quot; radiation.  The wireless transmission towers, cellphones and your home microwave produce non-ioniosing radiation.  Very different from nuclear radiation which is ionising.  

Much of the discussion in this regard suffers from the same misconceptions.  

More here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionising_radiation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-ionising_radiation</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@gary</p>
<p>i think you&#8217;re confusing &#8220;ionising&#8221; and &#8220;non-ionising&#8221; radiation.  The wireless transmission towers, cellphones and your home microwave produce non-ioniosing radiation.  Very different from nuclear radiation which is ionising.  </p>
<p>Much of the discussion in this regard suffers from the same misconceptions.  </p>
<p>More here:<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionising_radiation" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionising_radiation</a><br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-ionising_radiation" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-ionising_radiation</a></p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://www.techcentral.co.za/fourways-residents-vow-to-pursue-iburst-matter/12210/comment-page-1/#comment-2597</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 10:31:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcentral.co.za/?p=12210#comment-2597</guid>
		<description>The sad thing is, her child&#039;s health is probably deteriorating while she&#039;s chasing a bad lead and wasting time finding the real reason this is all happening to them.   I bet there&#039;s a hundred things that could cause the symptoms she&#039;s experiencing, like moulds, contaminted water mains, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The sad thing is, her child&#8217;s health is probably deteriorating while she&#8217;s chasing a bad lead and wasting time finding the real reason this is all happening to them.   I bet there&#8217;s a hundred things that could cause the symptoms she&#8217;s experiencing, like moulds, contaminted water mains, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Editor</title>
		<link>http://www.techcentral.co.za/fourways-residents-vow-to-pursue-iburst-matter/12210/comment-page-1/#comment-2595</link>
		<dc:creator>Editor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 07:38:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcentral.co.za/?p=12210#comment-2595</guid>
		<description>@Gary Waterworth: Tracey-Lee Dorny says she was misquoted regarding her rash. She&#039;s asked us to change the relevant quote to indicate that it took almost a month after she&#039;d left Craigavon for the rash to clear and that even after that her skin did not restore its texture for some time. We agreed to change the quote and have done so. - Editor</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Gary Waterworth: Tracey-Lee Dorny says she was misquoted regarding her rash. She&#8217;s asked us to change the relevant quote to indicate that it took almost a month after she&#8217;d left Craigavon for the rash to clear and that even after that her skin did not restore its texture for some time. We agreed to change the quote and have done so. &#8211; Editor</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Waterworth</title>
		<link>http://www.techcentral.co.za/fourways-residents-vow-to-pursue-iburst-matter/12210/comment-page-1/#comment-2594</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Waterworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 07:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcentral.co.za/?p=12210#comment-2594</guid>
		<description>LOL you moan when it is on , you moan when it is off and proves a mockery of your arguments. 

I suggest you look at other aspects of your lifestyle to explain your medical conditions. 

Radiation exposure will not &quot;suddenly&quot; get better when you leave. That type of exposure leave permanent damage to your skin and dna if it was at the level you are suggesting. 

Why not admit you dont like the idea of a mast on your border because it is an eyesore and hits your property value ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL you moan when it is on , you moan when it is off and proves a mockery of your arguments. </p>
<p>I suggest you look at other aspects of your lifestyle to explain your medical conditions. </p>
<p>Radiation exposure will not &#8220;suddenly&#8221; get better when you leave. That type of exposure leave permanent damage to your skin and dna if it was at the level you are suggesting. </p>
<p>Why not admit you dont like the idea of a mast on your border because it is an eyesore and hits your property value ?</p>
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		<title>By: Liezl</title>
		<link>http://www.techcentral.co.za/fourways-residents-vow-to-pursue-iburst-matter/12210/comment-page-1/#comment-2591</link>
		<dc:creator>Liezl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 06:09:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcentral.co.za/?p=12210#comment-2591</guid>
		<description>Anyone who gets that worked up can induce these symptoms in themselves or in frightening children. If she&#039;d gone ahead and take up the company on their offer to check things out more thoroughly I&#039;d be more inclined to listen but she just sounds like she has other issues that need to be assessed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone who gets that worked up can induce these symptoms in themselves or in frightening children. If she&#8217;d gone ahead and take up the company on their offer to check things out more thoroughly I&#8217;d be more inclined to listen but she just sounds like she has other issues that need to be assessed.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.techcentral.co.za/fourways-residents-vow-to-pursue-iburst-matter/12210/comment-page-1/#comment-2586</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 23:54:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcentral.co.za/?p=12210#comment-2586</guid>
		<description>Debbie,
You seem very passionate about this but &quot;a large-scale, unconstitutional medical experiment&quot;?  Please, give me a break.

While Van Zyl is no doubt arrogant and abrasive, the basic facts that he has revealed indicate that if the tower wasn&#039;t operational, the health problems were not caused by radiation from it.  All these other complaints about honesty in press releases, medical experiments and so forth are merely red herrings meant to distract from evidence that the health claims against the mast are bogus.

Maybe you should separate your dislike for Rudolf Muller and Jannie Van Zyl and their respective companies from the facts in evidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Debbie,<br />
You seem very passionate about this but &#8220;a large-scale, unconstitutional medical experiment&#8221;?  Please, give me a break.</p>
<p>While Van Zyl is no doubt arrogant and abrasive, the basic facts that he has revealed indicate that if the tower wasn&#8217;t operational, the health problems were not caused by radiation from it.  All these other complaints about honesty in press releases, medical experiments and so forth are merely red herrings meant to distract from evidence that the health claims against the mast are bogus.</p>
<p>Maybe you should separate your dislike for Rudolf Muller and Jannie Van Zyl and their respective companies from the facts in evidence.</p>
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		<title>By: Debbie</title>
		<link>http://www.techcentral.co.za/fourways-residents-vow-to-pursue-iburst-matter/12210/comment-page-1/#comment-2584</link>
		<dc:creator>Debbie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 20:55:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcentral.co.za/?p=12210#comment-2584</guid>
		<description>Robert if you read the article carefully you will note that iburst has in fact been shown some evidence (despite claims that they have not). (Techcentral too notes they were shown photographs of the rash). Iburst&#039;s chief was shown some rashes in person. He responded variously to each resident that their affliction must be 1) mcdonalds; or 2) boyfriend problems; or 3) steroids. He has never taken their claims seriously.

The true biggest revelations this week are lodged within the subtext of iburst&#039;s stated &quot;revelations&quot; (as dutifully reported by mybroadband). The real news is in the implications of what iburst is now claiming. Iburst cannot claim the ground they want to claim (the &quot;we have disproved our tower as a cause&quot; claim) without admitting to have breached the Bill of Rights in the Constitution. Specifically, i refer to the following section:

Constitution of the Republic of South Africa (1996)
Chapter 2: Bill of rights
12 (2) Everyone has the right to bodily and psychological integrity, which includes the right-
(c) not to be subjected to medical or scientific experiments without their informed consent.

Further unsavoury implications of iburst&#039;s claims this week are that iburst knowingly issued false statements to the media. I&#039;d be pretty annoyed if i were a journalist and the ceo of a major company admitted to having fed me false information. Again, by implication iburst admits to having knowingly issued false to the media, to having misused and abused their function by making them unwitting co-conspirators in his carrying out of a large-scale, unconstitutional medical experiment. The Star, the Fourways Review, Techcentral, MyBroadband (a known close iburst+vodacom ally), Itweb, Carte Blanche and Primedia have all been issued statements by iburst which the ceo now by implication admits to as being false.

I say all this under threat of legal action from iburst for my speaking out on the matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert if you read the article carefully you will note that iburst has in fact been shown some evidence (despite claims that they have not). (Techcentral too notes they were shown photographs of the rash). Iburst&#8217;s chief was shown some rashes in person. He responded variously to each resident that their affliction must be 1) mcdonalds; or 2) boyfriend problems; or 3) steroids. He has never taken their claims seriously.</p>
<p>The true biggest revelations this week are lodged within the subtext of iburst&#8217;s stated &#8220;revelations&#8221; (as dutifully reported by mybroadband). The real news is in the implications of what iburst is now claiming. Iburst cannot claim the ground they want to claim (the &#8220;we have disproved our tower as a cause&#8221; claim) without admitting to have breached the Bill of Rights in the Constitution. Specifically, i refer to the following section:</p>
<p>Constitution of the Republic of South Africa (1996)<br />
Chapter 2: Bill of rights<br />
12 (2) Everyone has the right to bodily and psychological integrity, which includes the right-<br />
(c) not to be subjected to medical or scientific experiments without their informed consent.</p>
<p>Further unsavoury implications of iburst&#8217;s claims this week are that iburst knowingly issued false statements to the media. I&#8217;d be pretty annoyed if i were a journalist and the ceo of a major company admitted to having fed me false information. Again, by implication iburst admits to having knowingly issued false to the media, to having misused and abused their function by making them unwitting co-conspirators in his carrying out of a large-scale, unconstitutional medical experiment. The Star, the Fourways Review, Techcentral, MyBroadband (a known close iburst+vodacom ally), Itweb, Carte Blanche and Primedia have all been issued statements by iburst which the ceo now by implication admits to as being false.</p>
<p>I say all this under threat of legal action from iburst for my speaking out on the matter.</p>
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